And I will say: - What do you think of the anathemas of the Council of Trent? What do you think of the anathemas of the Encyclical “Autorem Fidei” on the Council of Pistoia? What do you think of the “Syllabus”? What do you think of Pope Leo XIII's Encyclical “Immortale Dei”? What do you think of the “Letter on the Sillon Movement” by Pope Saint Pius X? of the Encyclical “Quas Primas” of Pope Pius XI, of the “Mortalium Animos” of Pope Pius XI precisely against ecumenism, against this false ecumenism? and so on… What do you think all of this? Let them answer me! Let them answer me if they still agree with all these papal documents, with all these official documents that define our faith. These are not just any documents, they are not speeches or private conversations of the popes, they are official documents that engage the authority of the Pope. So? …

I think one can, that one should even believe that the Church is occupied. It is occupied by this Counter-Church. By this Counter-Church that we know well and that the Popes know perfectly well and that the Popes have condemned throughout the centuries. For almost four centuries now, the Church has not ceased to condemn this Counter-Church which was born with Protestantism above all, which developed with Protestantism, and which is at the origin of all the modern errors which destroyed all philosophy and which led us into all these errors that we know and that the Popes have condemned: liberalism, socialism, communism, modernism, sillonism and more. And we are dying of it. The popes have done everything to condemn this. And now those who are in the seats of those who condemned these things are now practically in agreement with this liberalism and this ecumenism. So we cannot accept it.

And the more things become clearer, the more we realise that this program which was drawn up in the Masonic lodges - all this program, all these errors were drawn up in the Masonic lodges - well we realise very slowly and with greater and greater clarification that there is simply a Masonic lodge in the Vatican. And what now when we find ourselves in front of a secretary of the congregation or a cardinal who find themselves seated in the seat or in the office where there were holy cardinals, cardinals who had the faith of the Church and who defended the faith of the Church and who were men of the Church – well, we find ourselves in front of a Freemason! So is it the same? So that is good, they brandish the same obedience. Yes, in the past we were told to obey the faith, we were made to take the anti-modernist oath, we were made to make professions of faith, and all that – but now these people, what faith do they ask us to profess? It is not the same anymore. So we always brandished: obedience, obedience, obedience! Ah! yes, but still ... Obedience to the Church, yes! Obedience to what the Church has always commanded, yes! Obedience to the faith of the Church, yes! But obedience to Freemasonry, no! That is it, you know, for sure!

Lately I have been brought documents which seem quite true, documents which show correspondences between Bugnini and the grand-master of Freemasonry on the whole liturgical reform, in which the grand-master of Freemasonry asks Bugnini to apply the reform of the famous Rorca, the apostate priest who had already predicted everything that had to be done and had already foreseen everything that had to be done when the Vatican would be occupied by Freemasonry: - This is what we need to do. And so now the Grand Master of Freemasonry asks Bugnini to apply this! And the main principle: we must arrive at the “naturalizatione del Incarnatione”, therefore de-supernaturalise the Incarnation. So we come to naturalism. And we must apply the principles of the vernacular, the multiplicity of rites, the multiplicity of the liturgy to make the liturgy completely confused and confusing everywhere, and the oppositions between the different rites. 

Bugnini replies that he totally agrees with that, but that it will take some time. It may take ten years, but in the space of ten years, he will get there, and with the confidence that Cardinal Lercarro and even Pope Paul VI place in him in particular, with this confidence that he has, he is assured of being able to achieve his ends. And he names all those with whom he will work in the Roman Curia, all those who also have ties to Freemasonry, so that he will be able to work with them. But we will have to place some of them, we will have to put them in congregations in order to be able to carry out the work. It is necessary that all the congregations are more or less infiltrated and infiltrated by the members of Freemasonry: so-and-so, so-and-so ... It will be necessary to drive out this one because he embarrasses us, is against us, then it will be necessary get him kicked out. It will be necessary to suppress the congregation of the rites - he puts - but it is not the congregation of the rites, it is the congregation of the sacraments. He succeeded in suppressing the congregation of the sacraments and putting everything under the congregation of the rites, consequently putting everything under his authority. All this he says in the letters to the Grand Master of Freemasonry. So what do you want? Obedience? Ah! no ! Do not speak to us of obedience!

We are willing to obey, of course. We are the most obedient to the Church and to all that the Church has always taught, always wanted, but not to men who work for the destruction of the Church within the Church. The enemy is within the Church. Pope Pius X announced it. La Salette had announced it. Fatima announced it. Everything was announced publicly. We know that the enemy will break into the interior of the Church. Well there he is! He is there! 

So they may come asking to stop the ordinations! Who is asking to stop ordinations? Who are asking to stop making good priests? Which? Is it the Holy Ghost or is it the devil? It is clear, it is clear! Can a normal power in the Church ask a bishop to no longer make good priests? Can any normal power in the Church ask for such a thing? Ask to close seminaries, seminaries that they know are good? They know it, they said it. They said they were good seminaries. They know that the doctrine you are being taught is the true doctrine. They know it, they wrote it, they know it perfectly. They wrote it in the visitors’ report. The visitors have said so. They made an excellent report in favour of the seminary. This is what Cardinal Garonne told me when he asked me to come to Rome. He said: - Yes, the report is good. We know the seminary is good, etc. etc. So why close the seminary? Quite simply because we do not want to follow these Freemasonic orientations of ecumenism, and all these new orientations which were forged in the Freemasonic lodges. So they want to close the seminary. Well no, that is not possible! It does not come from the Holy Ghost; it does not come from the Church. It is not the Church that asks us to close the seminary. It is not the Church. It is not the Pope as Pope, those who are there as they are really the successors of those who were before them, no! It is a Freemasonic lodge that has gotten into the interior of the Vatican and is leading everything, and which obviously cannot feel us. It is clear, it is obvious. We are obstructing their plan, their plan of destroying the priesthood, destroying the Mass, destroying the liturgy. It is obvious.

So, do we have to obey? I believe in conscience before God, when he says to me: - Think carefully before God in conscience about what you are doing ... Well yes, I have reflected everything before God. If I am wrong, may the Good Lord give me the light to show me that I am wrong, but I do not believe so. I truly believe that by doing what I do, by ordaining the priests that I am going to ordain, I believe that I am serving the Church. I serve the Church. I would not if I only thought for a moment that it might be against the good of the Church, well I would of course refrain from doing such things! It is too serious. But it is quite the opposite!

Finally, the facts are evident now, the effects of this reform and this persecution of the Church within the Church are clear to everyone, it is becoming clearer and clearer. It is enough to read the Catholic Documentation each time to realise how many misconceptions are infiltrated in episcopal documents, in all documents, in all these theological commissions. Read the one we gave at noon, Theological Commissions. But it is full of errors, it is a false spirit, a spirit which is not at all the spirit of the Church! So that is why we do not hesitate for a moment and I hope the Good Lord will continue to bless us!"

Extract from a conference given to the seminarians of Ecône on 8th June, 1978 by Mgr. Marcel Lefebvre